I have always thought of DayGame as being the highest leverage activity when it comes to pick up. Least effort, most bang for your buck. Clean, precise, elegant, simple and effective. That’s why I’m honored to have one of the leading authorities with us here today. It’s art from NewYorkDatingCoach.
Nirvanos Deco: Art, thanks for coming aboard. Our readers will love to hear from you.
Now let’s get something straight. Some say you are the daygame guru. Is this how you see yourself?
Art: I see myself as a guy who just sees things as is: natural dynamic, and that’s what day game is all about. Its so common sense in day game In night game it’s all game
Nirvanos Deco: Yeah.
Art: in day time i can take a number in 3 minutes, and have a great date, in night game i need to spend 3 hours gaming her, where is fun in that? I am seeing a lot of confusion about day game in the community
Nirvanos Deco: That ties into the next question. Some see daygame as being too traditional… I.E. limited to a traditional dating model. No same-day lays, no after parties. You have to choose one girl, and go one-on-one, full on romantic. What’s your opinion on this?
Art: Yes and No. Yes , its unlikely to have same day lay
No, it doesn’t have to be traditionally romantic, in fact it’s the wrong way to go.
Nirvanos Deco: Really? Speak more to that.
Art: Traditionally romantic often implies dinner and movie, and that puts a certain image in women’s mind, if you change the structure of a date, and make it more low key, and less money at stake, the dynamic changes, it’s no longer courting, it’s having fun.
Nirvanos Deco: But it’s still one on one with one girl?
Art: Yeah, its one on one, but you can do social circles, but in day time 1on1 works better for most guys. Basically in day time, you don’t need social proof. Your personality is social proof, how you act and how you handle yourself, as long as we remember that women act on emotion, and not logic, the whole dynamic changes. That’s why a number close in just a few minutes not only possible but recommended, for a whole number of reasons.
Nirvanos Deco: Definitely.
Now… What are some of the biggest mistakes you see guys making in daygame?
Art: Its funny you mentioned it, i am right now writing the 4 myths about day game article, that talks about the main misconceptions and mistakes guys make
Nirvanos Deco: Give us a sneak peek
Art: Ok, well main mistakes are…
Starting with “excuse me”, its a small one, but almost all guys do it
Nirvanos Deco: Sure
Art: then, body language, often times guys tend to lean in rather then project voices and hold the ground, the shifting and moving as the speak, not even noticing it. Of course the girl does notice it.
Nirvanos Deco: Do you find these are more pronounced in the daygame?
Art: At night they are not as visible, because there is music, alcohol, a lot of action, so they are pronounced just because her full attention is on you, where at night she got distractions left and right.
Nirvanos Deco: Yeah
Art: This is also a big plus, though because if you know your mistakes, you can make day game approach so much more effective and efficient, just by removing those few small elements
Day game is FUN! That’s how i like to see it
Nirvanos Deco: Which brings up another point about the difference in night-game and daygame. There are several “biggies” out there sayin that nightgame is preferable for when starting out, because it builds into you social skills, social calibration etc… What do you think? What would your ideal formula for a newbie be, in terms of how much of each?
Art: I would argue against it, because i have worked with clients, and when i say i work with client i mean 10 weeks programs 1on1 , and if they came from night game, they would be so used to routines and high energy, that they would keep blowing themselves out of the sets.
Here is how i compare night game and day game, night game is like hammer and nail. You don’t need accuracy, just keep hammering. In day game, your set is opened or not opened in the first 15 seconds or less
… so that’s surgical precision
Nirvanos Deco: True.
Art: so i would say night game will hurt you, if you want to do day game , you can still do it, but your calibration will be off. I would say, start with day game, then see if you even want to do night.
Nirvanos Deco: Love it. Nice and simple.
Art: Because when you get number in few minutes and you’re having fun, do you want go back to 3 hour marathon races?
Nirvanos Deco: Exactly. You have no idea how much I agree with this.
Ok, let’s take a huge 360 degree spin, and backtrack all of this. What a lot of readers want to know when they get the opportunity to read from someone who’s reached mastery is…
Art: Sure, shoot
Nirvanos Deco: How long did it take you to first get to the level where you were satisfied with your “love life” let’s say… And how long until you reached the level where you could teach this to others.
Art: I had a really strange start, because the way I started was before the community, I just was so fed up with not getting girls, that i started approaching everywhere where i went… so it was a lot of trial and error, and that’s first time I saw day time work, I did one-hundred-and-one approach in my first month.
And got 31 numbers in day game.
Nirvanos Deco: This is all Pre-community?
Art: …yah pre community …i didnt know how to follow up, or do anything with it, so i blew them all, but i saw potential
Nirvanos Deco: Love it.
Art: So I started working different aspects on trial and error, so it was bout a year before i found community, so my roots come from just my own experience, of seeing what works and doesn’t work.
Nirvanos Deco: What were the main ways in which the community helped you, and then hindered you? What changed due to the community, in contrast to doing it yourself, trial & error style.
Art: Helped? I felt energy, i felt like Jedi master, i could feel energy between people. Amazing feeling.
Hurt? I just couldn’t figure out dating and was starting to get burn out by doing approaches and numbers and not knowing what to do next, or doing things, and things not working
Nirvanos Deco: yeah
Art: Community: [the community] gave materials that really clicked with me, most notably DYD and swinggcat. Infact swinggcat is the man.
Being the prize vision is what I have lacked before
Nirvanos Deco: Yeah, he pretty much brought the concept in.
Art: It wasn’t what made me happy, it was what made girls happy, and thats mattered. Once i saw and FELT what swinggcat was talking about, i added it to what i knew to day time approach, and it made a HUGE difference
In the first 3 months i got 3 ongoing friends with benefits and while the quality was still not there, it was still very cool to feel the difference between, how small shift in perception can mean so much
Nirvanos Deco: So all of that came from just switching on the prize-mindset?
Art: Yes, in one word. Yes, there was lots of small shits in things i done, but most important is being in my frame, and being prize, and later on i understood why.
Its natural, the guy is the center and he is who makes decisions. We approach, we call, we make the date, so why would a girl have the frame? That’s artificial.
Nirvanos Deco: It is.
Art: But society pretty much teaches that its natural, and after i read Swinggcat i was like ” FUCK yeh” i have since worked on the perception of being the prize… and came up with a more exact explanation that deals with frames, and how each conversation revolves around yours and hers frame.
Nirvanos Deco: Tell me a bit about your experience running the NYC lair. How has that experience helped you first in your own pickup skills, and then second in eventually doing this professionally?
Art: Well I don’t run nyc lair, i ran NYC wingmen and NYC play. In total 800 guys. I started doing it professionally and then started running lairs. I was a part of was NYC lair and i learned a lot from how they did things, so i decided to make my lairs less commercial
Nirvanos Deco: Meaning?
Art: What NYC lair does… is runs it as commercial, so all training goes trough guest speaker seminars or their coaches. In my case I wanted guys to learn from other experienced guys, aka wingmen.
Then we hold different events to get to know each other, outings, speakers.
Nirvanos Deco: So it involved no gurus, just sincere guys on the same path helping each other out basically?
Art: Yes, i do bring speakers, but i try to get speakers from the groups, do board speaking , get 3 good guys and let them speak at the meeting, so more community involved.
Art: I am not exactly happy with where the pick up industry moving, nor quality of service it provides
Nirvanos Deco: Sure, I was hoping you’d talk a bit about that. You hold one of the cutting edge blogs on following the trends in the community (http://pickupfuture.blogspot.com/)
What are some of the trends you see coming up in the future?
What are things you like and are optimistic about, what are some things you don’t like.
Art: There [are] a lot. One, i am seeing the community doubling by the end of 2008
Nirvanos Deco: Woah. That’s a bold prediction.
Art: We have reached a tipping point, where it’s no longer word of mouth
Nirvanos Deco: Sure.
Art: Media is jumping all over it, if you go to you tube you will find all kind of mini series on pua or jokes about it. Its becoming an industry. Not yet, but soon. We’re talking about men who didn’t even know they can learn this, now can learn.
Nirvanos Deco: So is this a good thing? Is it a bad thing?
Art: Well look at this, right now college students are the biggest population in pick up
Nirvanos Deco: Yeah
Art: now imagine 30-60 [year old] guys learning about it. They are practically untapped.
Nirvanos Deco: Sure
Art: And who has money? And when the money comes? What happens next?
Nirvanos Deco: Capitalism
Art: Anyone can become pua now, or claim to be, all you need is a site. You know how much making a site costs? Next to 0.
Nirvanos Deco: Sure, there are some well known cases of 60 year old bald 40-years-in-marriage internet marketers writing pickup books.
Art: there is no entry barrier so… yes, your uncle next door with 3 kids, will open a pick up business. So what i see happening next, is more local pick up guys. Sort of like the match making industry with a different angle.
Nirvanos Deco: Sure. Small pick up niches. Small pick up local stars. I can’t wait for the “pickup for guys with short hair” and “pickup for guys with no teeth” niches.
Art: Right now we are at the VERY start of the curve. There will also be a split between pick up and dating coaches
Nirvanos Deco: Yeah
Art: pick up doesnt have positive connection to the public so it will stay underground, and will be HUGGGGEE underground
Nirvanos Deco: Sure.
Art: while “dating coach”, is a known name so it will become more upscale…
…a lot more 30-60 will go to dating coach then pick up Artist
Nirvanos Deco: yeah, think dr. hitch?
Art: yes , hitch is the word
Nirvanos Deco: I did not quite get that.
You’re saying a lot more people will start off with the dating coach industry, and then discover the pickup stuff?
Art: Other way around
Nirvanos Deco: Sure
Art: people learn about pick up and then go look for a dating coach
I personally noticed big difference when game came out
Nirvanos Deco: What’s the difference? Except semantics.
Art: I call myself a dating coach, and there is significant difference between a pick up and dating coach… main [difference] is: a dating coach teaching you to become natural by eliminating certain habits, pick up teaching you to get laid
It’s a different mind set
Nirvanos Deco: sure
Art: I think its good to do pick up and get laid for a whiel, and then do more getting to know yourself, to be at ease with women, but what ofthen happens is that the market is still to small to really differentiate.
Nirvanos Deco: some would argue that only the marketing is different.
Art: The bigger it becomes, the more differentiation we will see.
Nirvanos Deco: Let’s bring it back to the reader.
Art: Let’s do it!
Nirvanos Deco: What all of this means to the reader. You’re obviously seeing the mess that exists today. When we were starting out there were 2 books, 3 methods and 1 workshop.
Today they are hit with a ton of conflicting messages, and everyone tries to push their own thing onto them. What is a practical formula you would suggest to a newbie to get good at this.
Art: Yah i love the basics.
In my article on day game myths i say fuck all methods, and then go take Improv classes near you
Nirvanos Deco: sure
Art: It really comes down to you, and what you want, and improv classes will get a person out of his head better then any material. Its all about building base and then adding elements like swinggcats’ book or my book, its only semantics in a big picture of YOU
Nirvanos Deco: What would you suggest he do in practical terms regarding the field. Would you prescribe he spend an x amount of hours trying to do daygame. Would you suggests working on certain attributes.
In other words, if you could go back 7 years ago, what map would you hand over to yourself to ensure the fastest progress possible.
Art: A practilcal method, go watch Top Gun, then go do few approaches, Top gun is best pick up move ever made. I would say doing approaches is the key, better then anything PERIOD. The more you do it the better, give yourself certain amount approaches a day, and then say , ” I wont go back home untill i do approaches for today”
Тhat’s how i started, but after you broke trough the wall of “cant approach”, ease off and stop doing approaches by numbers
Nirvanos Deco: That brings up an interesting objection some guys come up with when they hear that “oh, but he could approach even before the community, he can’t teach shy guys, he doesn’t know what it’s like”. What would you say about this? To some guys saying “just approach”, is like telling them, just go and lift a 500 pound dumbbell
Art: Haha, i wish it was that simple.
But the reason is i started those approaches, because i was so fed up with one girls bull shit, that i decided to change it, and it was HARD, but hardest are first few days, it gets easier later
I would walk around my block not wanting to do any more approaches, but i havent done minumun 3, i had one more to go.
Nirvanos Deco: Yeah
Art: So i would go, even if it was pouring rain, and approach someone
It was HARD, it wasnt walk in the park, but i was so fed up with that shit of not having control, that this was better then former.
Nirvanos Deco: But then again, you didn’t have a resource on daygame back then.
Art: I had nothing, but being fed up with BS.
Nirvanos Deco: Tell me about park bench dating. It’s probably the first truly comprehensive resource on mastering daygame and approaching.
Art: Park Bench Dating is my culmination, of all experience of thouhands og approaches , seeing what workds , what doesnt work, reading hundreds of books on psychology (and some on pick up), its realy built around you, undersanding yourself. What it trully means to have fun during approaches. Its filled with exercises.
That will get you out and you will want to approach in day time.
Its really not rocket science. Thats why i get crazy, when i see next pick up “guru” touting hie next “secret”, for fuck sakes, this is men and women, its biological.
There is really very few “secrets”, most of it is common sense that we dont see because of social norms.
Nirvanos Deco: The basics.
Art: [The] basics consist of 80% of good approach. thats why wee see naturals, who never read anything pulling girls left and right, just because he understands basics
Art: We could probaly take all community information and break it down to a 50 page booklet. thats all you need.
Nirvanos Deco: I fully agree. Especially once you see it all. The more you see, the more you notice how unnesecary most stuff is. Yah, it comes down to experince, so appraoch, take improv classes, read my or swinggcats book and enjoy meeting women, not as work but as a fun adventure.
Art: I see too many clients who come to me. And they crazed on IOIs, amoging, and other elements of pua community, but they don’t see the most basic common sense, and sadly as community grows more and more people will be that way.
Nirvanos Deco: sure. They all know all the lingo, but don’t have basic social skills
Can “DHVPSTHG the lateral tri-set”, but can’t just make friends and just socialize.
Art: …because PUAs , got to make money, so more products will come out, touring repacakged men + women = ?
Nirvanos Deco: Sure, you can’t sell a 50page booklet over and over. Basics don’t sell, revolutionary magic pills do.
Art: yep, “THE SECRET” this week is …….
Nirvanos Deco: What is it?
Art: It changes every week
Nirvanos Deco: Haha, so true. Well thanks for being here man. I really appreciate it and so do all the readers on here. There’s a ton value hidden in here, and I recommend everyone check out Park Bench Dating, and start meeting women instead of gaming.
Art: Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.
